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From: mccoyf@millcomm.com (Frank McCoy)
Subject: REPOST: BOUNDFN2.CMT 61K "Bound for Fun Comment"
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BOUNDFN2.COM (Comments on "Bound for Fun I & II)
As I said in the preamble to the stories, they were written for a friend.
After writing them, I managed to "lose" the second one on my hard-disk,
only retaining a hard-copy printout. This forced me into buying a scanner
to recover "Bound for Fun II" This is mentioned in passing below.
I sent both stories to the friend for comment, with a gap between them,
as I recovered the second. The enclosed material is excerpts from our
e-mail discussion of the stories. I am publishing this as an addendum
to both stories, to answer some questions (and possible flames) that
might otherwise raise their heads.
IN> Frank,
IN> Thank you very much for the story "Bound for Fun" which I read last
IN> week.
Thank YOU for the nice long response.
IN> Your story sure hits on some of our common and individual favorite
IN> themes. The girl is old enough for my tastes, I hope she is young
IN> enough for yours.
She is.
IN> I loved the allusion to "Preggie Sarah." That was really choice.
IN> You really have a thing for getting them pregnant, don't you?
As I've said before, getting pregnant is one of my biggest fantasies.
I'd give half of what I own, for the chance.
I know that I'm not the only man to harbor such desires, and
many women love the thought of BEING pregnant.
IN> The promise of a mother/daughter hot combo is also quite
IN> appealing, especially if both of them are kinked in the same
IN> directions as the protagonist, as they seem to be.
They are, but in slightly different ways.
IN> I appreciate the fact that you stayed away from specific descriptions
IN> of the bondage, etc, which you are not an expert in. This is great
IN> by me, since I find stories that start to read like parts catalogs for
IN> fetish wear to be tedious.
I always toss the ones that are nothing more than a description of torture-
devices.
IN> I am certainly no expert in bondage, although I have lurked about
IN> alt.sex.bondage for quite a while, but I think this story has some
IN> real-world problems with consensuality. Please let me note at the
IN> outset that I __know this is just fantasy, and no harm done, etc. etc.
IN> But the aspect of consensuality that primarily concerns me is the
IN> pregnancy one. Is the girl dumb, or am I? Does she know that she has
IN> been knocked up, and approve, or is she being taken along for a ride
IN> by her trusted parent? This could generate a lot of flames in a.s.b.
A. She's dumb. Well, not DUMB exactly, just WAY too trusting. This is
explored MUCH more deeply in the second story. She trust EVERYONE,
even when she shouldn't. Most especially, she trusts her mother to watch
out for her best interests, and in her own way June does.
B. Does she know? No.
C. Does she approve? I tried to make the implication, that she actually
WANTS to get pregnant, but is scared to do it, because:
1. She isn't married, and doesn't even have a steady boyfriend.
2. She's afraid of what her school-mates would think, if she showed up
at school with a bulging belly.
3. This is the kicker. Most importantly, she THINKS her mother would
disapprove, and she doesn't want to hurt her mother. If it wasn't
for fear of overburdening her mother with raising another child,
Lynn would probably have already sneaked out and gotten pregnant
anyway. Her mother knows this, and implies at the start, that Lynn
would have to "earn" the privilege of getting pregnant.
IN> Also, I think, again with the "this is only fantasy" caveat, that it
IN> would be pretty weird for a loving, caring mother, which this one
IN> seems to be, to leave her kid in the hands of a semi-pro BD
IN> specialist, with only threats of retribution to safeguard her. I
IN> think a bit of talk about her extensive checking of Jones' background,
IN> or even if they had mutual friends in the scene, or were or had been
IN> lovers (or whatever you call 'em -play partners?) might make this more
IN> believable. If you follow a.s.b at all, a huge amount of the talk is
Maybe that part, I didn't make clear in the story. June had made VERY
extensive checks on "Jones" before bringing her daughter over. she had
not only checked him out, but had talked to several of his "bottoms", and
even observed a couple of his "training" sessions, as a helper, and once
she had let him demonstrate on her, though it wasn't her "bag" so to speak.
By the time the story starts, the two were good friends, and he had been
teaching her things to use on her daughter, as Lynn had fallen for the
whole bondage-thing through reading about it. After a while though, second-
hand, amateur knowledge wasn't enough, and Lynn had asked to be introduced
to an expert.
LYNN was a trusting soul, and had never been really hurt in her life.
She had NEVER been abused, not even by a school-bully. She thought
EVERYONE was like the people in the stories she read, caring and thinking
about the other person, even when designing tortures for them, so that
in the end, the recipient always loves the "master" for what he/she does.
Lynn, to put it bluntly, was a romantic.
Her mother June, was anything but. She would go to great lengths to
protect her daughter, and had the personality, and ability to do it.
She's as tough as a marine drill-sergeant, and could lick double her
weight in professional bar-bouncers. She would do anything to give
Lynn what she felt the girl needed, and if it was a professional B&D
experience, or a baby in the belly, she would see to it.
Perhaps there's another thing I didn't make clear, though there are
hints all through the story. "Joe" was a "professional" By that,
I mean he did it for a living. He was good, because he had to be.
He had a business, and he advertised, and he relied on repeat business.
June wouldn't have set this up with anyone else. He did enjoy his
work, but nobody who gets into THAT line of work does so, if they
don't like it. Joe prided himself on giving the customer EXACTLY
what he/she ordered. If they wanted to be marked for 3 days, Joe
provide welts and abrasions that would be not noticeable by that
dreaded 4-day-from-now meeting. His customers relied on him, and
he supplied. Joe wasn't the "best" top in the city, but he was the
best "professional" one. All the others who were any good, did it
for personal pleasure, and quite often paid for the privilege, or
had a "stable" of "bottoms" to work with. Word-of-mouth sort of thing.
IN> about the building of trust, the reliance on trust, and the fantastic
IN> feelings of letting go __after you really trust a person (in many
IN> cases literally with your life.) But the trust always comes first, at
IN> least in the success stories. But that's real life, or as close as
IN> the world of BD gets to real life, so maybe my comments do not apply
IN> here.
As I said, Lynn trusted EVERYBODY. Really TRUSTED them.
NOT a good idea, as the second story points out.
IN> As always, please take my comments as coming from a completely
IN> friendly direction, and not meant as criticisms of your views or
IN> positions, just as my suggestions for possible improvements in the
IN> story.
I do, I DO!
IN> Finally, I have a question to ponder. You and I like this story. Who
IN> else will? Is it silly to consider the "market" for a story which
IN> will eventually be immortalized on the net, and never see any other
IN> form of publication? What I fear is that the pedo interest may be
IN> squicked by the BD content, the BD types may be squicked by the pedo
IN> content, and the consent concerns I blathered on about above, and
IN> surely somebody will be bothered to learn that people's mothers have
IN> an interest in sex, or have ever participated. Just something to
IN> think about. I suppose we could put it on the net, when you have
IN> edited as much as you want to, and see what kind of reaction it
IN> brings. I would be interested to see.
THAT doesn't bother me. SOME people out there will like it.
There are LOTS of stories out there that I don't like, and
I ignore them. I expect others to do likewise, with these two.
IN> I am looking forward to the next story you are trying to recover. I
IN> will reread this one this week, and probably send you a short list of
IN> spelling and other typographical errors that I noticed, which probably
IN> slipped past your spell checker.
I'll be waiting with "baited breath", like the cat who ate cheese, and sat by
the mousehole.
_____
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P.S. Do you mind if I save this letter, except for your name, and use it
and my response to answer any future flames/criticism? It helps not
to have to do it twice.
P.P.S. I got the scanner, and recovered part-2. Story follows this post.
PLEASE don't get squicked, until you've finished the whole story.
THEN feel free to let me have it with both barrels. ;-}
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IN> Frank,
IN>1. Using my last letter to respond to other critics, some
IN>probably not as friendly. I re-read the letter, and it is fine, except
IN>for my personal identity, which you should please safeguard totally, and
IN>the first paragraph. The first paragraph is not only irrelevant to the
IN>story, but also is pretty identifiable as written by me. To those who
IN>know me, that may be true of the whole thing, but they would not be able
IN>to prove anything, so go ahead.
I'll remove the first paragraph, and anything else that points to you.
IN>2. Have not yet had time to go over "BfF I" in the detail I
IN>promised, to send you the minor typos, etc. Hope to do so today,
IN>if not, tomorrow.
I'll wait on both stories for your criticism.
IN>3. "Bound for Fun II" - the blistering literary criticism! ;=}
IN>Anyway, I liked "BfF II" It certainly
IN>did not squick me. It dealt well with the trust issues, and the whole
IN>fascination with violence and torture as "fun" when in the real world
IN> 1) they actually go on, and
IN> 2) they are __NO fun.
Amen.
IN>Now, the literary hard part for me, is that I must tell you that you
IN>did not pull the wool over the reader's eyes. This reader, at least.
IN>Jones is clearly too careful of Lynn's feelings, her peripheral
IN>circulation, etc. etc. for him to actually be planning to kill her
IN>This plot reminds me of the movie "The Sting" I thought that
IN>was a fantastic movie, because it was all about a sting operation, and
IN>audience member thinks he is in on it, but in the end, gets totally
IN>taken in himself, and actually gasps when it appears that one of the good
IN>guys kills the other. Again, at least this viewer.
IN>I do not read a lot of the NC stories, except the Parker works,
IN>and so I am not too good at telling you what a NC perpetrator must "think
IN>like" in a story, but one thing is that he must be totally
IN>uncaring about the victim, except regarding leaving clues.
IN>Clues don't really have to do with
IN>the victim, just protecting himself, but at least that as close as he gets
IN>to giving a damn about the victim. Jones is way too careful.
IN>He is also clearly too nice a guy. I really don't know
IN>how to remedy this from the dramatic
IN>viewpoint in the story. That he is careful is okay,
IN> but that he is careful of the girl's
IN>feelings and comfort is not. I don't know how to get across his care,
IN>and maybe carefully and intentionally mislead the innocent reader, with
IN>statements
IN>that when read quickly look like the self-centered detail worries of a
IN>schmuck trying to cover the clues, but on rereading after the surprise
IN>ending actually may be interpreted to see that he was looking out for
IN>her all along. A difficult task,
IN>but the only way I can see to get the desired effect and leave it in 1st
IN>person.
The idea was never to pull the wool over the reader's eyes. The Idea was
to see if you could convince the reader that "Joe" was good enough and
convincing enough to pull the wool over Lynn's eyes. Since you don't point
out any discrepancies there, I assume you bought that one, and the story
can stand. (Typos and other corrections gladly accepted.)
BTW, the story is NOT about LYNN's suffering, but JOE's. HIS hurt, is the
one that's supposed to break your heart.
Think about it, having to do that to someone you love, in the HOPE that
it MIGHT save her for someone else. To be willing to make someone you
love, and had hoped to have love you, hate you, so that they'll survive.
"Greater love hath no man. . ." I think that being willing to give up
the love of someone for their well-being, is at least as great, and THAT's
the point I was trying to make.
I'll admit, I WAS trying for shock-value, when Joe "did-in" her mother.
I wanted to raise at least a LITTLE doubt in the reader's mind, whether
or not they had figured Joe out right.
_____
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(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IN>Frank,
IN>Re whether Lynn was hoodwinked, yes, I think
IN>Joe and her mother did a good job of convincing the trusting
IN>starry-eyed girl that she was actually given up to a degenerate,
IN>and that he would enjoy her, and then kill her.
IN>Joe's suffering is evident. Maybe you could put the "greater
IN>love hath no man..." quote in the story. It is both dramatic
IN>and succinct of the feelings Joe must have gone through before
IN>Lynn came over and all was patched up.
I would like to. I just can't think of a neat way (or place) to put it in.
I'll re-read it, maybe I can. Hmmmm. maybe afterwards, in a comment by
Lynn, or June. I'll have to think about it. It's a nice Idea, but I want
the story to flow smoothly. I'll try. No guarantees though.
IN>For my own version of "what is right" you might
IN>also add in the epilogue that Lynn finished HS on the honor roll,
IN>despite her bulging belly.
Good point. I'll fit that in somewhere at the end. "After finishing
High-school, Lynn has worked her way through college, and is now working
on her doctorate by taking evening classes, while June and I watch the
kids, sometimes alternating, and sometimes together. Now that the oldest
is 12, and can watch the younger ones, we find interesting things to do
together while still maintaining a presence in the house."
Something like that. I'll have to work on it. Any suggestions about this,
or the other will be appreciated. I think, that if I put in that Lynn's
working on her doctorate, then her finishing high-school (honor-roll or not)
would be superfluous. What do you think?
IN>Everybody seems to live and make love happily ever after.
IN>Does Joe continue as a professional top?
Yes, but in later years it becomes more of a side-line. His main line
becomes designing and supplying bondage clothing and accessories, with
Lynn as his main model. Do you think this needs to be in the story?
IN>do Lynn and June become his beautiful and kinky assistants?
Lynn does, as explained above. June is closer to being a "top", than
a "bottom". Sometime she helps him with a fantasy with Lynn. June remains
as kinky as ever, but with her own twist on things. How and why and where
she gets those kids of hers, are each stories in their own right. Joe
THINKS almost all the kids are his, but he's not sure about at least 2 of
them. June likes to keep him guessing. (BTW, outside of the story,
for your information only, they ALL are. June loves him just as much
as Lynn does, and wouldn't dream of cheating him. Make him THINK they might
not be his, yes. Actually HAVE anyone else's kids, no. Joe suspects this.)
IN>Does the huge family move out of the soundproof apartment?
That's a bachelor apartment. What do you think? One-bedroom, bath,
kitchen and tiny living-room, plus the one extra "dungeon" room. Of course,
the owners have bigger, fancier apartments, at sky-high rentals. No, they
moved to a small fixer-upper ex-farm-house, at the outskirts of the city.
By the time the story ends, with the three of them working on it, they've
made it into a quite nice place to live, with an old converted cistern as
a "dungeon" play-room. The ambience is unbelievable. Joe's clients are
willing to pay his now much higher prices, for the thrill. Joe can charge
more now, because he doesn't have to do it, to make a living. His mail-order,
and personal sales of his line of "Dungeon-Ware" is quite good, and growing.
IN>Do they win the lottery and keep having kids?
The only "lottery" Joe is interested in, is the "baby-sweepstakes" that
Lynn has once a year, when they reenact her "lesson" in rape. Other than
that, Joe doesn't gamble, and neither do the other two.
IN>(Actually, I would not worry about the lottery if I were Joe. He has
IN>already won big.)
Amen.
_____
/ ' /
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(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
BTW, I'm going to try to save all of these comments, and put them in the
package when I send it to you. I'll remove all references to your name,
and to you, when I do. You can then edit it again, and put it out to the
net, as a comment on the story-line. I'm not sure if it should go to
a.s.s, or a.s.s.d. Probably to a.s.s, as it does kind of complete the story.
IN>Frank,
IN>Well, the wait may not have been worth it, I'll leave that up to
IN>you to decide, but here are my editorial comments on your wonderful
IN>"Bound for Fun" stories.
<WHEW!> (Sound of a man releasing breath he's held for days.) ;-}
IN>First , "BfF I"
IN>> MY GOD! For the first time, I realized just how far I had gone.
IN>> Not only had I came in the little girl, possibly (Probably)
IN>come in the little girl...
IN>...
No, came is right. Past tense of "cum" or come. As in "I came, I saw,
I knocked the girl up." to misquote.
IN>> using the diaphragm to protect her daughter from pregnancy this
IN>> time. Oh well! At least ONCE, I had done it. Actually squirted
IN>> my seed in the little girl's unprotected belly, that it. I
IN>that is
IN>...
I already found and corrected that one.
IN>> and Mr. Jones attend to things, OK?"
IN>> "Okay Momma. If you say so." Dutifully, lay back on the
IN>Dutifully, she...
IN>> bed, and let me open her up, to her mother's administrations.
IN>Did you mean ministrations?
IN>...
OOOPS! You're right.
IN>> stimulation, of having her mother poking around in her, and me
IN>> from the thought of this incredible sexy, kinky woman actually
IN>> squirting my sperm in her own daughter womb, while making the kid
IN>daughter's womb...
OOPS again.
IN>And then, "BfF II"
IN>> huh? Frank looked almost like a nerd, but even though some would
IN>> consider him "over the hill" he still had the best imagination of
IN>> the lot of us, when it came to ingenious torture. Especially the
IN>> kind that hurt, but didn't damage. Fred was a guy you'd expect
IN>Is this a Hitchcock-like cameo, Mr. McCoy?
IN>...
Weeeelll. . . somewhat. Not exactly, but somewhat. The description is
close, but not completely true. Especially, I DO NOT go for torture.
even bondage, is not really my bag.
IN>> something. It wasn't real, until that final blow. Now seeing
IN>> the knife sticking in her belly, while she reeled from the deadly
IN>> blow, it finally got home to her. This wasn't a game, and it was
IN>How do you reel from a blow when you are tied down?
IN>...
You're right. It was her mind that reeled, not her body.
IN>> couldn't. Any force over about two ounces, caused the blade to
IN>> vanish into the sheath. It was an amazingly effective illusion,
IN>> especially when combined with fake blood canisters, but not worth
IN>Doesn't the blade vanish into the handle?
Right again!. My mind slipped.
IN>I hope these comments are of some value to you,
IN>and of course, they are all from a friendly source, and not meant to be
IN>barbed, even if they seem that way when viewed on a CRT.
BARBED???!!! Heck, those are FRIENDLY comments. I even welcome barbed ones,
if they show mistakes in what I was trying to get across.
IN>I hope to hear from you soon!
I'll try to edit in these changes, and the others we discussed sometime this
week, and send you the final disk. I'll also send along another story that's
been sitting for almost a year, waiting to be completed, but neither Tammy or
I seem to want to finish it, so we wrapped it up, and left it where it ended.
It ends fairly nicely, but it was originally planned to be twice as long. If
we ever do finish it, it'll have to be "Chapter 2".
IN>I have seen all of the material I posted (finally)
I saw your second post, just the other day.
IN>and have sent out some stuff to folks who missed part 1 of 4, etc.
Thanks.
IN>I will be posting more from your first disk soon.
Could you send me another copy of the list of files I sent you?
I forgot which, and I don't want to duplicate.
_____
/ ' /
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(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
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